Newfoundland?

[Keldrena]

I'm looking into a psychiatric service dog and what I'm read and seen of this breeds temperament seems to make newfies the best choice for my disabilities.

Can a Newfoundland sit still quietly for long periods of time? I'll be in college shortly so this is a must.
If you've meant newfies, how high energy are they? The ones I've met have be low energy indoors, but much higher out side.
Is a newfie strong enough to move an a person who's out of it or a collapsed person?

I know it takes a lot of training to have a service dog, so any help you could give would be great.

[Shidash]

First of all, it isn't always the temperament of the breed but the temperament of the individual dog. I don't know if I would recommend getting a SD while going into college, maybe wait a little so you can focus on the dog. I would also suggest getting a dog from a program if you are in college since you may not have time to train a SD. I don't know much about Newfoundlands as a breed but like I said, it isn't always the breed that matters.

I would go for it but maybe wait a little, research and give it a bit more consideration to be sure it will work for you in your lifestyle/planned lifestyle. Yes, I know I don't have a SD but I will post advice to the best of my abilities if that is okay. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Kirsten]

You should also consider the difficulties of handling a dog of this size.  They don't tend to fit easily under tables or in aircraft.  I sometimes struggle to smoosh my German Shepherd into places like that and know I could never succeed with a larger dog.

How far are you talking about the dog moving you?  Labs, Goldens, and Shepherds are often taught to turn their handlers to maintain an open airway and they're a good bit smaller than a Newfie. 

Also be aware that large breeds are prone to hip dysplasia and bloat and can be very difficult to carry or lift in an emergency. 

Sonya will probably have some good information to share since she once used a Newfie as a SD.  Sonya, do they drool as bad as Pyrs?  That would be a consideration too.

[Kirsten]

I think Shidash made a good point about getting a SD during a life transition.  The SD relationship is going to be a big adjustment, usually taking about a year to settle in.  It could be very difficult to juggle a new partnership and college at the same time.  Having done both (but not at the same time), I can say I would be very cautious about trying to do them at the same time.

There are additional considerations, especially with a large dog in a college environment.  For example, I don't think a Newfie would work out well in a dorm room, especially with a room mate.  So you'd need to consider off campus housing and really, it should have a good sized yard.  You'd need to deal with any objections the landlord has, or the school has.  This can be stressful.

The suggestion about getting a program dog is also a good one.  It isn't easy training your first working dog.  It's very demanding and frustrating, and there's a high risk of washing out (the dog not being able to complete training).  A good program would also provide some advocacy and help smooth the transition and with educating the school and landlord.

Also bear in mind that with owner-training you wouldn't necessarily have access rights for an SDIT (service dog in training) while at school and may need to make arrangements for the dog when you are in class.

[Keldrena]

When I said shortly, I meant that I had one more year of high school so not really shortly. I was definitely getting a program dog. I was looking at this training program:http://www.maplewooddog.com/. Have you heard anything about it?

I don't need a dog that will move me ridiculously far, it's just I've have this wonderful problem where I blackout. Just moving me out of harms way is really all that's needed.

If you could recommend other breeds that would be great. The thing is I'd really rather get a dog from a shelter.

[Shidash]

Heh, a back up program for me . No, I haven't heard anything about it but the website looks fairly good. It says that they are changing to an owner trained dog program and that may not work out well in your situation. I suggest waiting at least until you get into college since it says they have a 6-18 month waiting time. A suggestion for the moving task- a dog could be trained to get help if you blackout and the person could move you. I am not sure if a dog can move a person all on their own.

[Kirsten]

I don't know anything about that particular program, but the same stuff I told Shidash about checking out a program would apply.  Here's that thread:  http://servicedogcentral.org/forum/index.php?topic=2148.0

Since they say they have experience training PSDs, I'd also ask them what sorts of tasks they've trained.  Some agencies that say they train PSDs are really just placing well-behaved pets for emotional support.  Sadly without the required task training, they don't qualify as service dogs under the ADA.  Bear in mind that faux tasks, things like "hug," "cuddle," and "kiss," aren't going to hold up as justification of a dog as a service dog.  Sure, they can be taught as extras or "bonuses" and that's fine.  However, the dog also needs to do concrete tasks that mitigate the person's disability in order to qualify as a service dog.

I didn't suggest this discussion to Shidash because it's not clear the program she's approaching has experience with the type of dog she needs.  In her situation she may need to consult with others outside of her program, including her medical providers and others with a similar disability to figure out how a dog might accomplish a given task for her individual situation and take that back to the program for discussion.  If you can think up a task a dog can actually do, odds are a good trainer can figure out how to train it.  You do the figuring, they do the training.

Something the size of a lab could move you a little.  It depends on what sort of harm you might be risking.  I mean, could one drag you out of a fire?  Unlikely.  But then it is unlikely a Newf could either.  Pulling you out of a gutter?  Probably either a Lab or a Newf could do that.  Usually when people talk about the dog moving the person out of danger they are talking about a person who is having convulsions and is at risk for injuring themselves by banging into furniture or walls.  So I guess I'm not cluing in to what other sort of danger a dog might need to move a handler from.  That makes it hard for me to guestimate whether a given dog is likely to be able to do it or not.

In the end, though, your best bet is not to fix on one certain breed but to let your program pick an appropriate dog regardless of breed.  Sometimes they come in unexpected packages.  Any breed is capable of producing good service dog candidates, but some breeds have more available than others. 

As few and far between as good candidates are, I wouldn't try to restrict the choice based on breed.  You need to consider lifestyle issues like hair (can you live with dog hair and grooming, or need a low-fuzz dog?), general size (will he fit?), activity level (a couch potato handler with an energizer bunny of a SD is a bad combo), and so on.  Springingpups has a Dalmatian SD.  A Dalmatian would not have been one of the first breeds that popped into my head as a service dog possibility, but her Grady is a great one.  She might have missed out if she had her heart set on a German Shepherd and let Grady get passed over.

When I got Cole, I wanted a female.  I wanted her solid black, plush, and a puppy.  Instead I took home an adolescent (nearly a year old) black and red, short-coated male (Cole).  It turns out he was the right dog, my criteria were just off.  I got stuck on cosmetic stuff instead of looking at the characteristics that are really important, like how unflappable he is and what a good problem solver he is.  Or the fact that he can predict seizures which I had no clue about.

Not all individuals of a breed are characteristic of that breed.  My Cole is unusually outgoing for a GSD.  The breed standard says they're supposed to be "aloof" and he's a little chummy by their standards.  I've known shepherds who were wusses, and I've known Chihuahuas who could kick my butt.  So picking a breed for specific characteristics instead of just picking the characteristics regardless of breed can backfire on you.

[Keldrena]

To honest, I never really cared about breed it just seemed to be what everyone else was going by. The need for the dog to move me has to do with the fact that I may blackout on a sidewalk or hallway. That's when it may be necessary for me to be moved.

I wasn't even thinking of training "hug," "cuddle," and "kiss as tasks, I didn't realize that someone would even claim they were tasks. I came into this whole service dog thing unknowing as my therapist mentioned I might want to look into a service dog.

[Kirsten]

There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of people going about things in ways unlikely to succeed.  Picking a breed is one common mistake that is perpetuated because the people claiming to be in the know don't actually know how to evaluate an individual dog for service work and are hoping to fudge it by picking a breed known for the desired traits.

Never, ever take anyone's word as fact.  Including mine.  Ask questions:  lots and lots of questions.  Do independent research.  Do reasonableness checking by running ideas past common-sense people you trust to get their take on it.

Some of the most common myths about service dogs on the internet:

1.  that owner-training is faster, cheaper, and produces a better "bond" than going through a program.  (none of these is true.)
2.  that "velcro" dogs make the best PSDs (very not true--velcro dogs are mentally ill with separation anxiety which means you can wind up with two beings having simultaneous meltdowns instead of one helping the other to stabilize)
3.  that anyone can train a service dog by reading stuff on the internet or in a book (not true).
4.  that the ADA covers a person's right to take their service dog in training in public (not true).
5.  that certain breeds make good service dogs or that breed selection is an important criteria for SD candidate selection (not true).
6.  that "do work" means a dog doesn't have to be task trained so long as the handler benefits in some way (not true, dogs must be task trained).
7.  that only bad people wash out dogs and rehome them (not true--it is much kinder to a dog to wash them out than to force them into a career that is stressful to them).
8.  that if you cape your dog no one can ask you any questions about it (not true--they can ask what tasks it has been trained to perform regardless of whether it is wearing a cape).
9.  that the police enforce the ADA (not true--the ADA is enforced by civil suit, not by law enforcement)
10.  that the ADA does not apply to service dogs for persons with psychiatric disabilities (it does apply).

I could probably go on and on that's a good overview of the misinformation available.

[Keldrena]

Thank you. It feels good to be informed. Are there any books you recommend I read?

[blkpanther0001]

Ok here is the scoop on a newfie as a svs dog.  I was not looking for a svs dog for myself at the time I got her I was looking for one for a friend/client. I stumbled upon Kali. I trained her in just a few months for what the person who she was supposed to go to needed her for, (in home work not public access), like brace, and get a family member when they needed help.  Well after giving her to them she would not work for them, she would just mope by the door, and when outside would stare in the direction I had left. after a couple of weeks of this they called and asked me to come get her. I did and she was so happy she stayed with me. I helped them get another dog that worked out great for them.

I was just planning on keeping kali as a pet until she started alerting to my heart problems. at that time I continued her training to help me with my balance (i fell down allot when my legs give on me, unexpectedly) she was trained to stand by my side and brace as i put my hands on her shoulder and hips to get up off the ground. also to brace to help me up from chairs.

having a newfie is great, but it is also a pain to have such a large fluffy dog. It was hard to keep her brushed and clean, tho if you keep a newfie brushed they do not get that doggie odor even when they get wet and have not had a bath for awhile. getting space on a plane when we flew was hard allot of people did not want to sit by us.  she shed like crazy epically twice a year she would molt her fur and it would be every where, no mater how much you brushed her. she would pick up dirt and water in her paws and track mud every where.  her fur would get burrs and twigs stuck in it and have to be brushed out.

Sonya, do they drool as bad as Pyrs?

yes some do, i got lucky with Kali and she would only drool if she was drinking or had just finished drinking, or you had something she wanted (food, any type of food).

I had to deal with everyone wanting to know what type of dog she was and could they just pet her a little bit she looks so soft and cuddly.

Initially I had 2.5 acers for her to play in but when I moved here to anchorage I lived in a tent, then a travel trailer, then an apartment with no place for her to run loose in, (she was never reliable on recalls if off leash and not working and another dog or something interesting wondered by, working she was right on every time no hesitation), but with the proper exersize she would rather lay by me and not wonder and be hyper. as a puppy they have boundless energy like all puppies but when they get older and mature they can be couch potatoes if you let them.

if you live in a hot climate you have to watch for them over heating in the summer, she drank about 3 gallons of water a day, and liked to play in the water bowl, splashing it allover the place, yet it took 2 people to get her in the tub for a bath. and she hated to go out swimming she would wade and lay down in the shallow water but not swimming.

would I ever get another newfie if the chance arose, not on your life. my medical situation has changed and I can no longer keep one groomed, plus I really did not like all that fur it gets into everything.

would they make good svs animals you bet they do if properly trained from a young age or by an experienced trainer if they are older.

to a certain degree yes they can move people, they can roll you over, and possibly drag you a short distance. but I would rather the dog just keep me from rolling or stumbling into something instead of dragging me anyplace.

If I can help in answering any other questions about newfies just ask and I will do my best. but it is getting late and I cannot think straight any more tonight.

[Kirsten]

Are there any books you recommend I read?

It depends on what you are interested in.  Are you talking about books on training, on dogs, on disability or service dogs specifically?  There aren't many on service dogs themselves and those I've seen I've found lacking.

For a start on training I recommend Deb Tillman's "Clicking with Your Dog."  The Bow-wow video series is good and used copies are often available on eBay.  Anything by Dr. Ian Dunbar should be good.  Some of Karen Pryor's stuff is difficult to follow, but the theory she presents is sound.  She's just not as good at bringing it down to the common man's level as Deb Tillman is.  There are some good training articles on Gary Wilkes' site (he's a nationally recognized clicker trainer who has trained service dogs privately) http://www.clickandtreat.com

I recommend Suzanne Clothier's "Bones Would Rain from the Sky," which is about relationship building with dogs.  She has some excellent articles at http://www.flyingdogpress.com

There's a good OC training list with some famous trainers and authors on it, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OC-Assist-Dogs  and there's a good list on PSDs (but lurk first to scope it out):  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychiatric_Service_Dogs

There are many more books I like and recommend, but it is difficult for me to judge which might appeal to you or might be on your level of expertise because I don't know you well yet.  Somewhere around here we have a book review board where people do reviews of their favorite books.