Author Topic: How can a service dog help my family?  (Read 813 times)

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Offline momof4

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How can a service dog help my family?
« on: March 02, 2010, 02:02:39 AM »
Argh.  I spent a good hour meticulously describing my situation and my log in time timed out.  *cries*  lol.  Lost all the text.  Too much to retype.  Here's the short version:

I need help learning what a dog can do to help my family.  3 out of 4 of my children have Asperger's.  I have Asperger's myself.  A service dog was suggested for one of my children by a friend awaiting her own service dog.  My child's teacher thinks it's a great idea.  She has a brother who has a PSD.

I need help with figuring out what type of dog my child/family could benefit from (terms) and broadening my ideas for what task(s) a dog could do that would help him/us.  Fyi, my son is ten and exceptional with animals.

My ideas for tasks so far......

- Finding individual family members.  I have two bolters and one hider.  I also have one non-Aspie child who has learned these behaviors from the older siblings.  We've had many very stressful, very dangerous situations because of this.  This happens in public places and at school.  We also live on a 622 acre ranch.  GPS is not an option as my children are very capable and smart.  The devices would purposefully be taken off by them.  The dog could also find me in a crowded show room (my son is an avid show animal exhibitor) when my son feels a panic attack coming on - even if I am 20 feet away. 
 
- Providing emotional support.  One of my Asperger's children (bolter, hider, social phobia disorder) cannot function in many normal social situations but has marked relaxation when either I or animals are by his side.

If there are any here with Asperger's or Autism experience, will you please share what tasks your dog does for you?  I could use some help thinking outside the box.  Also, please share what type of dog you have (terms).  It is much appreciated.

Offline Spectrum

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 10:02:01 AM »
Whatever you do, do not tie any of your children to the dog.

Now, I have Asperger's, and though I don't have a service dog yet, I intend to get one fairly soon. I have a "wish list" of tasks that I want. They include things such as guide work, hearing alerts, deep pressure, balance, and some navigation (go home, find the car, find an exit, etc). Generally, it's the same kind of tasks used for other disabilities, but used in sort of a different way.

I do have an emotional support dog, and that in itself has been a huge help, but an emotional support dog does not have public access. However, pretty much any service dog will also provide emotional support :smile:  Some other things that I find therapeutic is doing things with my dog - for example, right now I'm training him for rally (we have our first trial in April). I've also been doing some basic agility training with him, and using him to help teach me to train service tasks, such as lights, retrieving, and guiding. Those activities don't mitigate my disability, but it's helpful anyway - in an emotional support way.

How old are your children? Most of the time a service dog in school is not appropriate. Later in high school it may work, but it depends on the kid and the situation.
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Offline state_of_nowhere

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 10:43:20 AM »
In my opinion, 10 years old is too young to be responsible for a service dog. A service dog handler needs to be capable of making decisions in all inevitable situations of daily life when out and about with a dog. A 10 year old child is simply not capable of doing that. There's also the issue of who is responsible for the dog while the child is in school.

In order for a dog to be considered a service dog, it must be individually trained to mitigate disability. Are you considering a service dog that will work for all members of your family? That would not be recommended for a variety of reasons.

My suggestion would be a well-trained emotional support animal. Lots of families with children with special needs find that the children benefit from having a well-trained pet in the house. Personally, I see no reason why the dog needs to go everywhere in the community with your son.
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Offline Roxie

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 12:15:37 PM »
So, are you wanting 5 Service Dogs? Or a communal SD?

Your kids don't sound mature/competent enough to manage and care for a dog. Lassie and Rin Tin Tin, and Beethoven and all these cool movie star dogs don't exist in real life.

I understand you are over-whelmed with all the activity and responsibility. Is Dad involved? Do you take advantage of Respite Care and other community supports?

I strongly agree with the others here: select a couple of really great dogs with wonderful temperaments. On rural acres as large as yours, and with kids with such unique needs, I'd look for a hardy large breed.... Bernese Mountain Dog, St. Bernard, Labs, Newfoundland.  Really great farm/ranch pets can be trained to do "therapy and task" work to help out in general on the farm.

You could also use a large pony or small horse that is older and bomb proof to maybe help some of your kids... and you!

A SD will not really help you at this point. I definately see no value of you being responsible for the management of an SD in public in addition to all the high needs kids.

A dog is not an  anchor to deter a child from roaming or bolting.  Never under any circumstance tie or tether a dog (or any animal) to a child. It is a great danger to the child, the dog, and the public.

You are a great Mom, doing a very hard job extremely well. I applaud you.

Roxie
Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending. (M Robinson) Have you ever seen insanity where you later saw creativity? If you haven’t achieved it yet, what do you have to lose? Which is worse, failing or never trying?

Offline momof4

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 10:18:30 PM »
Thank you for the thoughtful responses.  They are helpful. 

We have a Great Dane. Even well trained, I know well enough to not tether myself to a dog let alone a child.     Simple GD leaning will knock you off balance.  :wink:

I am no stranger to therapy animals.  I know my son needs something more. 

Some background:  My first dog (as an adult), I trained as a family pet/obedience dog - a level headed, crowd pleasing 4.5lb Chihuahua.  He helped my "raise" my babies and we worked together as an AAT team in the community until he developed cataracts and was no longer comfortable in our busy household.  He now lives in the lap of luxury in a retirement community with grandma and grandpa who've begged to have him for years.

My instincts told me that my son could benefit greatly from AAT  and social interaction in an accommodating setting so we signed him up for 4H at the age of 5 and he got his own therapy animal - a tiny Jersey Wooly rabbit.  She was a miracle worker and claimed my son as hers.  She made it clear that my instincts were right and that beautiful and beneficial animals would be a part of our lives because they benefit our family in many ways.

My son and I raise and show nationally competitive rabbits state-wide and across the country.  He specializes in one breed, I in another.

My 10 yr old also raises and shows Pastel Call ducks, Rhode Island Reds, and a small Toggenburg dairy goat herd.  He also has fancy pheasants.  Other animals on the ranch (that belong to us) are Sumatras, a few bantams, and heritage turkeys.  That is his thing; he really connects with, understands, and retains information about animals.  Like some are uncannily good with numbers or musically talented (like my autistic BIL), my son has a knack with animals and is better with them and more knowledgeable about them than most adults. 

My boys have done animal chores, since age 2, and learn to train their animals, from age 5, under my guidance.  That is not to say that my 10 yr old will be able to give commands to a dog in an episode but many adults can't do that, either.  I still have to mull this SD thing over. 

Anyway, when the kids were younger, I trained both my dogs to pass the TDI test which we failed due to my own foolish errors during testing.  Tip:  Don't dremel you dog's nails right before the test. :blush:   Shortly after that, I realized that I had to give all my attention to my family after my 3rd child began exhibiting troubling symptoms and did not retake the test. 

We only own one dog but there are ranch dogs here, too.  They are not trained the same as my Dane, but they don't bother the kids.

That is our animal background.  I have no desire to have another dog because of the years of training involved in getting them "just where I want them" UNLESS it is one that is trained to do specific tasks that will help my son or myself.

A SD at school would not be an issue.  The teacher is all for it.  No hesitation there.  My children go to a very unorthodox public school.  K-8, lots of teachers, 35 students in the entire school.  It is it's own school district.  I know that at least one other similar school in the area actually has more than one dog at their school.  These are country folk.  A dog is good.  A dog that does a job to help a human is invaluable.  Accommodations will be made if needed.

As I've been mulling over the thought of a SD, I've wondered if the dog would be more for my son or for me.  I have issues of my own that I'd rather not be specific about here in which a live, interactive, specifically trained creature could help me function.  Still, I am not set on anything just yet.

If I got a dog for me, I would definitely want it trained to find family members for the safety reasons stated above.  Keeping me on task, using touch stimulation, for time sensitive issues would be great as audible reminders like alarm clocks or phone calls seem to not mean much to me.  I don't know what to call that.  I'm not good with realizing how much time has passed because I get obsessed with things.  Gosh, that sounds dumb but it's true.   :cry:

*sigh*  So much to consider.

Offline Roxie

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 12:27:21 AM »
What tasks does your son need done at school by a dog? There are ample staff in a K-12 to provide all the tasks and supervision he might need. If they are remiss in providing for his supervision/security,that needs to be specifically written into his IEP and addressed with the Principal and Superintendent.

Why can't you get a pet for the farm and train it to find your kids?  Why can't you supervise the kids better and/or provide better security to limit bolting - running - hiding?

A SD task is not taking over parental duties or responsibilities.

What type of tasks do you need a SD to be trained to do for you? Have you applied at SD Training Programs? Or checked any out? How will you handle the extra work of supervising and correcting an animal you must hang on to?

Why not use your Dane as a companion for your son? It does sound like your kids have ample emotional support animals available there!  I sure like Toggenbergs!

Roxie
Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending. (M Robinson) Have you ever seen insanity where you later saw creativity? If you haven’t achieved it yet, what do you have to lose? Which is worse, failing or never trying?

Offline Spectrum

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 01:07:15 AM »
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I'm not good with realizing how much time has passed because I get obsessed with things.

I know EXACTLY what you mean lol

Anyway, I still think your 10 year old does not need an SD in school. A 10 year old, even one with that kind of experience, is too young to handle learning and caring for an SD. There are a lot of things to consider. Also, keep in mind that danes are big, kids are small, and even an accidental bump can injure a child (this could be a problem in school especially). Even for adults danes are often a pain for public access. I would LOVE a dane, and even know the breeder and litter I want one from, but I am holding out because I don't want to have more problems with access than I need by having a huge dog that doesn't fit well into small spaces.  It does still sound like the only thing the dog would be doing in school is emotional support, which is not enough to make a dog a service dog. In a school there are support staff that are there to help your child. A dog would be one more being to keep track of and care for. It is not the job of the staff to care for a service dog in school.

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Offline momof4

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 02:25:07 PM »
What tasks does your son need done at school by a dog?
Why can't you get a pet for the farm and train it to find your kids? 
Why can't you supervise the kids better and/or provide better security to limit bolting - running - hiding?
What type of tasks do you need a SD to be trained to do for you?

These are very good questions to pose, Roxie.  I especially need to have solid answers for #'s 1 and 4 in order to decide whether a service dog could help my family or not.   Question # 2....we've got trained pets aplenty just for the kids.  That is well covered.  The kids don't need another pet. 

Question # 3.....lol  That is what every mother of Aspie children is asked again, and again, and again by family, teachers, even complete strangers every day (it seems like every day).

As one who has a dog yourself, even a well trained SD, I ask Is your dog a robot?  Do you have complete control over him?  How about if you had four of them and one took off in a crowd?  Do you leave the rest and run after him?  How about supervising 4 untrained dogs?  Do they have a mind of their own even if you're a great handler and have shown them what is expected of them? Of course. 

 Now pose those questions but substitute "child" in place of dog.  And now a child with bolting and hiding behaviors (done for a very justified reason) that is sensory sensitive or sensory seeking (or two or more children with clashing symptoms), social phobia disorder, and that are literally blind to social cues? 

I have no remote control for my children (darn it   :wink: ).  Even the best "handler" cannot control another human being.  One might rightfully argue that a mothers job is not to control her children but to help them to become independent of her.  Along the way, she will supervise them and keep them safe as is possible.  I will not keep my children in a box, though.  Educators have pushed and pushed me towards not doing so, for the sake of the kids, and I will not keep them isolated to keep them safe. 

I am good at what I do; I am very skilled at parenting, supervising my children, providing security for them, managing the lot of them in such a way to get the best out of them individually and as a group.  However, I need more.  They need more.

As a mother of 4 children, 3 being Aspie kids, I'll be frank.  I laugh at the though that some people think that raising only one or two non-spectrum kids is difficult.  Or even 3 or more.  I can't think of anything easier to do.  Talk about a cake walk.  If anyone here is the parent of non-spectrum kids and have thought it was hard, feel free to be offended by my statement.  I've got Asperger's so I probably won't pick up on it.   :tongue2:  lol.  Kidding.   :wink: 

But you get my point.  It's not a matter of parents of Aspies being lax, distracted, careless, or what have you.  These are free agents we're talking about here - our children.  They have their own wills and are typically very clever or thought of as "too smart" in comparison to their non-Aspergers peers.  If it appears to the inexperienced that Aspie parents are not doing their job properly, all I can say is that is because you are not understanding what you are seeing.
 
I do not want or need a babysitter.  Certainly not a canine one for heaven's sake.  That is ridiculous.  If I were to get an additional dog, it would be so that I have another tool accessible to me that would aid me in doing my job even better than I am doing now.

My question still remains - "how can a service dog help my family?".  I am uncertain that one can or that I am using the correct terms.  Perhaps, as suggested above, it is a well trained ESD that would be most helpful.  I don't particularly want to bring a dog everywhere with us (but I am not opposed to it if it can help) but since my children really don't have severe problems at home (they function best at home than outside the home) but out in public, that is where I could use a  tool most. 

I am better able to piece together a clearer picture of whether or not some sort of support from a trained canine would be beneficial.  However, I think that unless another Aspergers member here can point out what specific tasks their dog does for them, so as to broaden my mind, I don't see how any SD could be helpful to us or any Aspergers person for that matter.

Offline k1maplewd

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 05:07:51 PM »
I am autistic and yes I have a SD for that, he's been my partner for nearly the past 7 years.  When in public he does a number of trained tasks for me such as:  guide work (obstacle avoidance, indication of changes in surface/stairs/curbs, intelligent disobedience in traffic situations, etc), following people on cue, finding specific people on cue, finding specific locations on cue, finding "home", finding the car.  He also does "bonus tasks" to of weighted pressure on various parts of my body.

I use the guide work as due to my autism I have poor proprioception and crash into things a lot as I can't acurately tell where various parts of my body are.  Last year I also went through formal O&M training which helped me with this immensely for if I do not ever have a dog I can still more easily stay safe in my environment.   I also get sensory overstimulated and when that happens if it is severe enough my brain literally turns off and no longer processes anything so I need my dog to stop when there is something in the path that I could trip over or not let me walk into the road or off a train platform, etc.

Again due to sensory processing disorder if I am with someone, such as a family member or friend, it is very helpful to me to have my dog find these people on cue by name so that I am not wandering or panicing trying to find them.  The follow cue is helpful for this as well so that I don't get seperated from my party.

Finding the car and home is important for if I am out by myself with my SD as I again get disordiented and overstimulated very easily and will not be able to get myself back to my car to regroup or back home, so he has been taught to guide me to those places.  Similar for finding specific places we go often by name.  I can leave my house, tell James, "Let's go to Starbucks" and he will get us there safely every time.  He knows that route, so even if my brain gets overwhelmed, I know that we will not get lost and will end up at Starbucks or where ever else I tell him.  He knows about 15 or more places by name not including "home". 

He also finds exit doors to lead me outside of a building if I am getting over stimulated so I can get to a less stimulating environment and regroup.

One of my other dogs, at home only, does alerts to timers, the microwave, doorbell, etc as due to my sensory processing disorder I will not "hear" those sounds.

Those are things my dog does for me.  When I was 10 I was very involved in dogs (4-H, agility, obedience, etc), but still having experience the access disputes and stress and having to act calm and in control when people are trying to be nasty to you and make sure that your dog is cared for each and every moment you are out of the house, I think it would have been way to much for even me to handle safely and well when I was 10.  Had I had a SD at age 10, it could have put my dog and I in some very bad situations just simply because I was too young to have experienced enough in life to know better about some things and I wasn't socially capable enough to deal with other kids and people who act inappropriate with my dog that I would have encountered daily at school and such.  If enough of these bad situations had happened and I hadn't handled it well enough, that would have caused my dog to not trust our relationship and probably led to early retirement or worse (such as the dog getting over stressed and shutting down or lashing out agressively)
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 06:51:51 PM »
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As one who has a dog yourself, even a well trained SD, I ask Is your dog a robot?  Do you have complete control over him?  How about if you had four of them and one took off in a crowd?  Do you leave the rest and run after him?  How about supervising 4 untrained dogs?  Do they have a mind of their own even if you're a great handler and have shown them what is expected of them? Of course. 

Leashes. They have them for kids too. Use them.
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Offline quinn

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 08:13:28 PM »
First I'd like to say hi :smile: You probably won't see me post too much, I mainly browse the forum when I have time, but I just wanted throw in my two cents.

It sounds like you want the dog to behave like an extra pair of hands for you, you want to be able to "have an extra parent" or "sitter", so to speak. This is unwise for several reasons. The first one I can think of easily is that the dog is an adult dog, but your child is a "puppy". You don't want to put the dog in control of the child which, if you have a dog act as an anchor and etc., is exactly what that dog would be. The handler (child or adult) needs to be in control of the dog, not the other way around. You obviously understand this at least in part, based on the example you posed previously:
Quote
As one who has a dog yourself, even a well trained SD, I ask Is your dog a robot?  Do you have complete control over him?  How about if you had four of them and one took off in a crowd?  Do you leave the rest and run after him?  How about supervising 4 untrained dogs?  Do they have a mind of their own even if you're a great handler and have shown them what is expected of them? Of course.

Actually, I would specifically like to point out one question you posed:

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Do you have complete control over him [the dog]?

The answer here is YES. A handler must ALWAYS have complete control over their service dog and must ALWAYS be able to correct the dog should it break training.

Another thing about having the dog act as a "second parent". A service dog is a dog that is trained to mitigate its handler's disabilities. It doesn't matter if having the dog makes someone else's life easier, all that matters is that the dog makes its handler's life easier. The example you chose about having dogs (kids) run off and needing to choose between the runner and the rest shows that you have your hands full, but as much as you may not like to hear it that actually still doesn't matter. What matters is the disabled handler and the dog. If the dog isn't mitigating the disabled person's (child or adult) disabilities, then it doesn't meet the legal definition of service dog.

I know that it sounds like I'm being negative, but I've seen a lot of stuff about these situations. I don't want to make it sound like there are no legimate use-cases or tasks that dogs can do for people with autism. This is not the case. Spectrum mentioned this in her response:
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I have a "wish list" of tasks that I want. They include things such as guide work, hearing alerts, deep pressure, balance, and some navigation (go home, find the car, find an exit, etc). Generally, it's the same kind of tasks used for other disabilities, but used in sort of a different way.

These are all tasks that the dog would do for her. The first thing you mentioned, finding family members, doesn't sound like a service dog task to me (I'll leave it to more experienced members to correct me if I'm wrong). The reason I say this is because finding family members is not a task that the dog would be doing for the child, but rather a task that the dog should be doing for you. If the dog is your child's service dog, it should not be doing tasks for anyone else but your child. Now if you have a service dog and this task mitigates your disability, then that's a different story.

I also want to talk about second task you mentioned, emotional support. Service dogs need to be extremely temperamentally sound, especially if they are working with children. Any service animal, by the nature of their presence, will provide emotional support. I would also like to point out that the DOJ has distinguished between emotional support animals (ESAs) and service animals. An ESA provides emotional support to a disabled person. An ESA is not the same thing as a service animal, and any animal that solely provides emotional support will be legally considered an ESA.

I'm not going to say one way or another if you, or any of your children, should get a service dog (or service dogs). Those are decisions for your family. I do think you need to think about what tasks the service dog could do for you, if you are getting the service dog for yourself, or what the service dog could do for your child that is not currently being done by a pet, ESA, or aide.

TL;DR - The service dog won't work for the family, it will only work for the disabled handler (child or adult). If you are looking for a service dog for you, then I think you should think of what tasks the dog could do for you that mitigate your disabilities (your "wish list"). If you are looking for a service dog for one of your children, you should similarly consider what tasks the dog can do for your child that is not being done by you, a pet, an ESA, and an aide.
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Offline Roxie

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 12:25:07 AM »
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These are free agents we're talking about here - our children[/quote

My children were not "free agents". Freedom is what they earned at age 18 and after they left home.  They were free thinkers. But freedom is not for the unskilled at being free.

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Even the best "handler" cannot control another human being.  One might rightfully argue that a mothers job is not to control her children but to help them to become independent of her

I made sure that consequences were real bad and immediate and memorable. I wanted no re-offenders. I managed inmates the same way. A parent's job is to protect, discipline, teach their kids to mind & comply with rules. A parent gives no slack - must be fair firm and consistent. They have plenty of time to be independent ...

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My question still remains - "how can a service dog help my family?". 

A SD has to help the disabled handler. They don't work for the family.

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Do you have complete control over him?  How about if you had four of them and one took off in a crowd?  Do you leave the rest and run after him?  How about supervising 4 untrained dogs?

Yes I always have control. Did with my horses, my kids, my inmates,my students, and my dogs. If I have 4 untrained dogs.... I would not be taking them out simultaneously by myself.

It was mentioned that you might want to use the child harness leashes to keep your brood safe and contained. I agree. That would be your safest bet.  Safer yet... bring Dad along or hire an assistant to go with you... or watch some of the kids at home.

So, what do you want? You say you don't want another pet. I don't think a SD would be appropriate for your son right now as he is just too young.

There is no harm in starting to lok for SD's, though... you may have a 2-4 year waiting period. But you and your son's health & education team needto determine what tasks he would need done and what he could manage

Roxie
Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending. (M Robinson) Have you ever seen insanity where you later saw creativity? If you haven’t achieved it yet, what do you have to lose? Which is worse, failing or never trying?

Offline momof4

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Re: How can a service dog help my family?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 10:46:27 AM »
K1maplewd,

THANK YOU!  Your response was very helpful - exactly what I was looking for.  I'm really glad that you took the time to help me.  :smile:

You are right.  While my son handles big responsibilities caring for, training, and showing many animals, I can see that an SD would be a constant for him and he would not handle that well.  The animals we have function as a comfort for him and that comforting time with them is something that he chooses for himself when he needs it.  Though animals love him, my son is progressing toward being more independent of them and more able to have human interactions.  Having an SD by his side constantly may be a step back for him - become a crutch. 

Given the examples of what an SD does for you (and examples given by others), I can't see where my son would need one.  I can't think of any task it might do for him (other than finding individuals and taking him to an exit).  I'm *hoping* that when he is older, he will be able to do those things for himself when he is panicking.  Time will tell, but I could see it.

I could see where I might benefit from an SD but, I do like to be very independent.  I'd much rather try to find another solution before turning to canine help.  I'm stubborn. 

Thank you, again.....very much.   :smile:

 

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